Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Tabs on Sep 7th 2023 at 7:27:19 AM
Writeup. He is only in first story with mention in second, so I am unsure whether he should be put beetwen the Eye and Hunter, or since Hunter is (pretty briefly mind you) in Mono’s past we should create Six’s Shield only bullet below the Eye and Hunter and put the Craftsman and the Lady there.
- Six’s Shield (link):
- Six’s past: The Craftsman is a sadistic, long-limbed man in the service of a little girl known as the Pretender. He takes children other servants capture and has them skinned alive to make dolls for the Pretender, doing this to hundreds of kids. When Six is captured, the Craftsman plans to subject her to the same fate, before she escapes and he just takes another kid to skin.
What is the work?
No Disrespect is a 2023 crime drama. It is about the protagonist, Milk being a drug lord who runs the streets. Following being released from jail, Milk's step father, Bull intends to reclaim his position and take the streets for himself.
Who is he? What has he done?
Bull is the father of Milk, Tony and Zay a ruthless drug lord who is established to have killed people during his reign, many years prior to the start of the film, Bull's abused girlfriend, Loretta left him for a man named Malcolm, who she would have "Milk", Malcolm Sr by,upon Bull finding her he makes her kill Malcolm under threat of killing the baby Milk. Afterward he goes on to routinely beat her leaving bruise after bruise on her.
Upon being released from jail he continues to beat Loretta, punching her in the stomach abd smacking her, leaving a nasty black eye on her. Wanting to kill Milk and his gang, Bull sends his Goons after them, upon them failing to kill them, Bull kills one of them but he was so impressed by how the other one killed his men that he offers to give him 250 if he disappears, when he refuses, Bull tries to shoot him but the guy manages to escape.
Confronting Tony's wife, he not subtly threatens her to work for him. When Zay finds Bull beating Loretta again, Bull strangles Zay when he tries to stand up to him intending to kill Zay, Bull strangles him to presumed death (it later turns out that he survived) and frames Milk and Tony for the murder.
Upon Tony's wife finding out that Tony had lost his job a while back and has been doing drugs and sex work to pay the bills, Bull has her kill Tony and the woman he was sleeping with. When Milk and his girlfriend confront Bull intending to kill him, it's revealed that the girlfriend actually works for Bull and that he paid her to get close to him, Bull also had Milk's dealer working for him too. Bull orders the two to kill Milk but Milk was one step ahead of them having done something to their guns to make them not work. Milk shoots and kills both of them. Milk and a group of his guys shoot and kill Bull.
Mitigating Factors?
He wanted all his sons killed, not caring at all about any of their lives and he also horribly abuses his partner Loretta both physically and emotionally,labeling her a "whore" and regularly beating her senseless.
At one point he showed respect by the way one of Milk's Henchmen killed his and offered him 250 yo disappear but immediately tries to kill him when he refuses.
Heinousness?
Kind of high, Milk is a Villain Protagonist who runs a drug ring like Bull did before he got arrested and the film opens with him and his gang gunning down a rival gang that they were dealing with but what stands out about Bull is that not only does he kill a lot of people but he also has some nasty personal crimes such as horrific domestic abuse of Loretta, finding Loretta nd forcing her to kill her lover when she finally escaped the abuse under threat of him killing her baby and attempting to kill all of his sons.
Any fools who oppose me will be executed.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Bull.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Does Bull stand out enough?
Also, Geode, how do you think the tree should look for Six's?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
We'll show them. We'll show them all.
Bull
The attempted baby murder sounds more than enough.
Real power doesn't come to those who were born strongest, or fastest, or smartest. No. It comes to those who will do anything to achieve it.
Mr.
To Kronos and the two dragon/warlocks!
A Woman, just one of many types
Again to Valentin, the story does at the very least treat Valentin as one of the main contributors towards the miserableness of the country
Love from All
Bahamut protect us
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
To Valentin, I think treating him as an Allegorical Character for the USSR and therefore responsible for all of it is a stretch
To Chaka, he has basically 0 personality
Any fools who oppose me will be executed.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I disagree on that, I already run down over how Chakal does have personality. He's Flat Character but he has shown enough in my opinion, like one of his core characteristics he himself points out is his hatred of everyone especially bull fighters. With finding a medal that grants him invincibility shows his power-hungry side along with his final act showing off how spiteful he can be.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 2:38:29 PM
Valentin.
Chakal if slightly.
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 22nd 2023 at 11:23:36 AM
We'll play together me and you when you paint the land in nine bright hues!
Sabine Wren
Yes to me...I mean Bull.
Yes to Parasite.
Yes to Chakal.
No to Valentin.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:41:55 PM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
to Bull
@ ACW, could go either way. I Lean just putting him beetwen the Eye and Hunter thought.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll defer to you on this.
Mind showing me what the entire tree should look like?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Like this
- Six’s Shield (link) & Mono’s past (link)
- The Eye
- Six’s past: The Craftsman
- The Hunter
- Into the Maw: The Lady
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fic dosen’t give indication she is not, but she gets even less characterization than the Craftsman and what we do have is more spoiled child who lets her employes handle all the work.
Either way the Craftsman’s is easily most brutal and direct part of operation.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Sep 22nd 2023 at 2:02:12 AM
The Timeless One
Rec Parasite. Should check out that movie some day. Interesting when an evil force with no obvious personality makes the cut.
Chakal.
Also, reserving The Amazing Digital Circus since it's only a few weeks away. I recall Mermaid being interested in the show as well, so if she wants to do a collab, I'll gladly accept.
Best Smile
Kernal Goylok, Dueling Warlocks, Drexler, Nora, Parasite, Chakal, Bull.
Kronos, Valentin.
Chakal, Rak Parasite, and Goylok.
Here's one I've wanted to bring up again. I've thought her over and think she does enough to stand out.
What's the work?
All the Boys Love Mandy Lane is a 2006 horror film centered around Mandy Lane, who is invited to a party by her classmates, but soon people start dropping dead.
Who is she?
While she appears to be the Final Girl, it's revealed that Mandy was the one behind all the deaths. At the start of the film, she plots with her friend Emmett to get one of their classmates killed, having Emmett offer the boy a dare to dive into the pool, which he then tries to do, breaking his neck.
The next year, Mandy suddenly becomes more attractive to her classmates and becomes popular, and starts ignoring Emmett in public, but she secretly is manipulating him to take part in a plan to massacre her classmates at the party. On her orders, Emmett begins stalking the other kids, luring them outside and then butchering them, while Mandy plays the role of an innocent bystander and makes it look like she's trying to get help. She also manipulates Chloe, a girl who admits to being jealous of her, so Chloe will think they're friends and come to her when she needs help. The ranch hand, Garth, is also shot and Mandy tends to him so that he'll trust her.
The next morning, Emmett attacks Chloe and she runs for her life. Mandy tells Chloe to come to her and embraces her as Chloe sobs hysterically, then stabs her to death, revealing herself as the mastermind. She leaves Chloe to bleed out and sadistically jokes about how much blood was gushing from her. Though she had led Emmett to believe they would then commit suicide together, Mandy reveals she never intended to go through with this, accusing Emmett of only caring about her looks like everyone else. Emmett tries to stop her from backing out but Mandy overpowers him and beats him to death. She then portrays herself as an innocent victim to Garth the ranch hand, and escapes with his help.
Heinous standard?
She sets it as she's the mastermind behind the murders of her supposed friends, and coldly manipulates them to think they can trust her while getting them killed. She helps set up her first victim to break his neck from a dare, and has Emmett stalk and murder four of her friends at the party, and their deaths are pretty brutal (one victim has her neck broken with a shotgun, while another has his eyes slashed before being stabbed). She's also quite sadistic when she kills Chloe, as she feigns sympathy and assures her it will be okay as Chloe is crying in her arms, before stabbing her to death and coldly leaves her to bleed out. She also gloats to Emmett about how she used him to accomplish her goals and taunts him that "you should never do anything for me" before killing him, and she clearly enjoys doing so.
Redeeming traits?
I don't think so. She's implied to have been a social outcast before suddenly becoming popular but her victims aren't shown to have done anything to deserve their fates and she has no real motive other than sadism. Though the film's page suggests she spared Garth because he was nice to her, this feels like an Alternate Character Interpretation as the film never suggests this was the reason, and it was likely pragmatic as she needed someone alive to help her escape and back up her story, and the film never confirms that she genuinely liked him. Her apparent kindness to her aunt is also likely a facade and is never hinted to be genuine.
Verdict?
I think so.
Edited by Javertshark13 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 10:50:40 AM
Seems pretty subpar for a slasher villain, to be honest. Leaning on Mandy.
I'll take it all from you humans too.
Gotta agree. She's come up before and I still find her lacking. May actually work on the other thread unless there's something I'm forgetting.
Hermits are those who touch upon the truths of this transient plane.
...Phenomenal
for Parasite, Chakal, and Bull.
for Valentin and Mandy.
Mandy, the Tetris 2023 villain
to Parasite
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Sep 23rd 2023 at 2:38:44 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
parasite and Nora
Real power doesn't come to those who were born strongest, or fastest, or smartest. No. It comes to those who will do anything to achieve it.